A Montreal Canadiens fan blog
Archive for August, 2009
Habs history – Frustrating look at John LeClair
Aug 4th
John LeClair was one of those guys who you would want on your team, big power forward with good hands.
John LeClair played an important role in Montreal’s stanley cup win of 1992-1993.
Soon after in 1994-1995 LeClair was traded to Philadelphia along with Eric Desjardins and Gilbert Dionne for Mark Recchi and a third rouner.
Frustrating for Canadiens fans was the fact that as soon as LeClair hit Philly his numbers soared.
The next 3 full season in Philadelphia LeClair score 51,50,51 goals respectively and the 2 season after that he notched 43 and 40 goals respectively. He averaged 89.6 points a season for the 5 full seasons after being traded to Philadelphia. (From 1995-96 to 1999-00)
John LeClair’s numbers in Montreal
224 games played, 49 goals, 69 assists and 118 points.
Points per game: 0.53
Goals per game: 0.21
Assists per game: 0.30
John LeClair’s numbers after Montreal
743 games played, 357 goals, 344 assists and 701 points.
Points per game: 0.94
goals per game: 0.48
Assists per game: 0.46
His offensive production pretty much doubled after leaving Montreal as he was teamed up with Eric Lindros and Mikael Renberg. Their line was affectionately (by Phily fans) “The Legion of Doom”.
I believe the 3rd round pick the Montreal Canadiens had acquired was either Miloslav Guren or Martin Hohenberger. Either ring a bell??? Not for me.
Recchi had a few decent years in Montreal notching over 30 goals twice.
Looking back who won that trade?
What’s your opinion?
I think the Flyers certainly did getting both LeClair AND Desjardins.
Player comparison – Koivu vs Moore
Aug 3rd
Since I got hooked in reading some forums over at the Montreal Canadiens website I got into some discussions.
I participated a bit more in the “Should Koivu’s number be retired” article I wrote earlier.
I did a little comparison just for fun. The reason for this comparison was that I’ve seen some people state that Saku Koivu’s performance over his career was “sub par”. So I’ve compared him to the great Dickie Moore.
Here’s the comparison as I wrote it in the forum’s thread.
I’m still trying to figure out why some people are thinking Saku was “sub par”.
I’ll trespass into the nostalgic for fun and lets compare 2 players and where they rank in the history of the Montreal Canadiens.
Saku Koivu totals – playing in the dark ages
Games played : 792 – 19th all time
Goals scored : 191 – 27th all time
Assists : 450 – 6th all time
Points : 641 – 10th all time
Career point per game : 0.80Dickie Moore totals – playing in a golden age
Games played : 654 – 28th all time
Goals scored : 254 – 14th all time
Assists : 340 – 16th all time
Points : 594 – 13th all time
Career point per game : 0.90The point of this is to compare Koivu to a legendary Habs player who had his number retired keeping in mind who Dickie Moore had to play with..
Some of Dickie Moore’s team mates?
Rocket Richard, Elmer Lach, Bernard Geoffrion, Doug Harvey, Émile Bouchard,Jean Béliveau, Henri Richard, Ralph Backstrom, Bobby RousseauThose were some of Dickie Moore’s team mates for many years.
Who could we compare to those players that played with Koivu for the last 13 years.
Not many.Saku’s point per game is just below Moores average. I’ll bet a dollar if Koivu would have had a Rocket and a Belliveau or an Elmer Lach… his average would be a bit higher.
I honestly can’t understand how some people have stated that Saku’s performance has been sub par. Because in the history of the habs, his numbers speak quite the opposite.
If you don’t like him. That’s ok.
But please acknowledge what he’s accomplished without the team that our many greats have had.
How do you see Koivu’s career in Montreal historically? Think he deserves a look?
Question – Should Koivu’s number be retired?
Aug 3rd
I recently joined the Montreal Canadiens forums and have enjoyed reading through some of the threads and discussions going on over there.
On thread kind of struc me.
“Should #11 be retired?” is the name of the thread and there is a poll attached to it.
I was kind of surprised at first that it would be discussed so early, but then after reading for a minute I was no longer surprised… I mean, we’re Habs fans right? (at least some of us are.. if you’re not and reading this site… welcome!)
So the discussion rages. Some say no, some say yes….
One of the points I saw on there was that Koivu doesn’t warrant it because his production over his career in Montreal isn’t “super”.
Well, I guess I disagree a bit for what it’s worth.
There’s a difference between the Habs of the mid/late 90s, the Habs of the 2000s and the Habs of the 70s, the 60s…etc.
Traditionally, the Habs have had some very strong teams for many years. Some of the other legendary Habs were surrounded by other “legends”.
Koivu really doesn’t have to many players who played along side him that stand out to me as being future legends.
Early in his career just after the 93 cup he had some talent around him with Damphousse..etc.. At the end of his tenure with the Habs he had Kovalev and Tanguay.. played well with Higgins and Ryder when used together.
But there many years that he was just on a struggling team. No doubt about it.
Here’s how he finishes his career all-time in the canadiens uniform:
2nd longest serving captain
5th power play goals
6th in assists
7th game winning goals
8th short handed goals
9th minutes played
10th in points
19th games played
27th goals scored
And he managed to put up with more crap then anyone I know with class.
It’s my opinion that he deserves a fair look at having that number 11 retired. Some say his production wasn’t “super”. But I’m not sure just how good he was expected to be on a mediocre team for so many years.
Saku, I think you deserve it mon capitaine.
Scott Gomez and the Corsi number for last season
Aug 2nd
While reading “Corsi Numbers vs Plus/Minus” over at YourHabs.com I got a little interested in maybe doing a little research and crunching some numbers. There’s one problem though…. I’m trying to get some other work done.
As luck would have it though, I stumbled across another article over at BleacherReport that talks about the Rangers – Habs trade that brought us Scott Gomez.
This article shows a chart that was created and rated Scott Gomez 17th overall (Corsi number stat). If you check the list his name appears in some pretty good company.
I believe Scott Gomez will have a good year this season. I think he’ll be playing more regularly with guys who will be able to finish his plays. Cammalleri, Gionta, Andrei Kostitsyn (unless one of those rumours comes through). He’ll have better surroundings then a fading Marcus Naslund or Callahan. At least I think he will.
Just remember, some people were laughing at Gainey for taking Kovalev who had faded in NY. Love him or hate him, Kovalev had an impact in Montreal and a career year for himself.
I believe Gomez has it in him too. He’s younger then Kovalev was when he came over….
Anyways, take it for what you will. I think some of the experts will be wrong again this year.
That’s just my opinion. Thank God I’m not an expert.
I’m just a hockey fan.
You can find the article titled “Inside the Numbers: Scott Gomez for Chris Higgins+ Ryan McDonagh” over at BleacherReport where the author not only talks about the Corsi number but compares the Gomez trade.
Some Habs stats from the history books
Aug 1st
Ever wonder who scored the most goals as a Montreal Canadiens player? Who played the most games? Who played just a few games?
Here’s a few numbers for you.
Most games played in a Montreal Canadiens uniform:
1 – Henri Richard 1256
2 – Larry Robinson 1202
3 – Bob Gainey 1160
4 – Jean Béliveau 1125
10 – Guy Carbonneau 912
11 – Patrice Brisebois 896
19 – Saku Koivu 792
Most goals scored in a Montreal Canadiens uniform:
1 – Maurice Richard
2 – Guy Lafleur 518
3 – Jean Béliveau 507
4- Yvan Cournoyer 428
15 – Mats Naslund 243
16 – Bob Gainey 239
27 Saku Koivu 191
Most assists in a Montreal Canadiens uniform:
1 – Guy Lafleur 728
2 – Jean Béliveau 712
3 – Henri Richard 688
4 – Larry Robinson 686
5 – Jacques Lemaire 469
6 – Saku Koivu 450
13 – Mats Naslund 369
27 – Patrice Brisebois 284
32 – Andrei Markov 255 (tied with Shayne Corson)
Most points in a Montreal Canadiens uniform:
1 – Guy Lafleur 1246 (in 961 games!)
2 – Jean Béliveau 1219 (in 1125 games!)
3 – Henri Richard 1046
4 – Maurice Richard 965 (in 978 games!)
5 – Larry Robinson 883
10 – Saku Koivu 641
12 – Mats Naslund 612
23 – Vincent Damphousse 498 (in 519 games!)
35 – Patrice Bisebois 371
+/- in a Montreal Canadiens uniform
1 – Larry Robinson +700 (imagine!)
2 – Serge Savard +492
3 – Guy Lafleur +477
4 – Steve Shutt +409
5 – Jacques Lemaire +349
11 – Bob Gainey +196
24 – Mats Naslund +120
Some less favorable +/- stats with recent players:
Brian Savage 461 games, -51
Sheldon Sourray 324 games, -44
Michael Ryder 314 games, -24
Francis Bouillon 481 games, -23
The +/- stat is one that isn’t just reflective of an individual players ability, but is also a bit reflective of the linemates they were playing with at the time.
Top Penalty minutes in a Montreal Canadiens uniform:
1 – Chris Nilan 2248
2 – Lyle Odelein 1367
3 – Shayne Corson 1341
4 – Maurice Richard 1285
5 – John Ferguson 1214
8 – Jean Béliveau 1029
16 – Craig Rivet 795
17 – Chris Chelios 783
Most power play goals scored in a Montreal Canadiens uniform:
1 – Guy Lafleur 138
2 – Yvan Cournoyer 112
3 – Steve Shutt 90
4 – Jacques Lemaire 89
5 – Saku Koivu 66
6 – Mats Naslund 66
7 – Larry Robinson 65
19 – Alex Kovalev 45
21 – Patrice Brisebois 41
Most short handed goals scored in a Montreal Canadiens uniform:
1 – Guy Carbonneau 27
2 – Bob Gainey 20
3 – Peter Mohavlich 17
4 – Vincent Damphousse 12
5 – Benoit Brunet 10
8 – Saku Koivu 9
13 – Christopher Higgins 8
Most game winning goals in a Montreal Canadiens uniform:
1 – Guy Lafleur 93
2 – Yvan Cournoyer 61
3 – Jacques Lemaire 58
4 – Steve Shutt 49
7 – Saku Koivu 35
10 – Bob Gainey 34
22 – Alex Kovalev 20
26 – Patrice Brisebois 18
Most shots on goal in a Montreal Canadiens uniform:
1 – Guy Lafleur 3209
2 – Jacques Lemaire 3051
3 – Guy Lapointe 2306
4 – Steve Shutt 2278
5 – Larry Robinson 2142
6 – Bob Gainey 2099
9 – Saku Koivu 1553
13 – Patrice Brisebois 1395
Most wins by a goaltender in a Montreal Canadiens uniform:
1 – Jacques Plant 314
2 – Patrick Roy 289
3 – Ken Dryden 258
8 – José Théodore
20 – Carey Price 47
Most shots against a Montreal Canadiens goaltender:
1 – Patrick Roy 12958
2 – José Théodore 9833
The shots against stats were not counted until recent years.
I’ve only posted some of the top stats. The “Our History” website has a ton of information.
A couple of thoughts after looking through the numbers.
1 – Saku Koivu has his place in the history of the franchise in several categories whether you love him or hate him. I wonder what his numbers would have been like if he had played without the numerous injuries and if he had been surrounded with a better cast of players like some of the others at the top of the list had.
2 – Patrice Brisebois played many years in Montreal and even after all the “Breezer” hating that went on his place in the history of the Montreal Canadiens must be acknowledged. Even his career started in Montreal at the end of a bright spot (1993 stanley cup) and through countless years of the dark ages that followed. How would Brisebois’s numbers have looked on a stronger team?
All the stats, the goals, assists, +/-… they’re all somewhat reflective of not only the player’s individual talent but also the team he has to play with through the years.
Here’s a couple of questions for you….
1. What do you think about Saku Koivu’s place in the history of the Canadiens?
2. Has anything jumped out at you in these stats?
Check out the “Our History” website, it’s all there!